Home » News and Forum

News and Forum

You do not need to log in or register if you only want to view a topic in a forum below, but if you register you can receive notifications about your selected forum or topic and, in order to post in a forum, you must be logged in. 

Welcome Guest

Pages: 1 2
17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees
PlanningPostJuly 12, 2020, 10:19
Administrator
Posts: 150
Registered:
April 4, 2018, 13:36
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

A notification has been submitted for work on trees in the conservation area. The proposal is to fell the two large lime trees to the south of 17 Cumin Place, which can be seen to the right of the 20mph sign in this streetview. The Grange Association’s tree expert has sent this email to the Council’s Arboricultural Officers raising concerns about the proposal. It points out that these are the only trees of their age or size on Cumin Place and that they are an important feature of the streetscape.

Details of the proposals are available from the Council's planning portal at 20/02749/TCO. They include this indicative plan and visualisation of the wider proposals for the site. Notifications for tree work do not admit comments from the public, but we do on occasions contact the Arboricultural Officers if there is material concern expressed by our members. Applicants are required to give six weeks’ notice which, in this case, expires on 17 August 2020. In the absence of the Council deciding to make a Tree Preservation Order by that date, the work can proceed thereafter.

Details of all tree work notifications in the Grange area are available from our pages here.

BradleyPostJuly 12, 2020, 15:19
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered:
May 10, 2019, 11:50
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

It would be desperately sad if these two beautifully shaped, significantly large, mature trees were to go. They are visible all down Cumin Place and from Dick Place and must be two of the most striking trees in the area. Aa far as I know there is nothing wrong with them. I think any proposal to cut them down should be strongly resisted.

wrenhaPostJuly 13, 2020, 14:42
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered:
September 25, 2013, 09:16
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

We live across the back wall of 17 Cumin Place (in Lauder Road). These are not the only trees they propose to fell or have felled in order to totally sanitise and redesign their whole garden taking no account of what was is there already. It is most distressing. Four apple trees have now gone and this week a substantial Silver Birch which used to overhang our garden and was a delightful part of our environment has been felled (we knoew nothing about it, but now find they did submit the work to the Council who saw no reason to issue a TPO.)
The Lime trees are even more vital now that the other large tree and smaller ones have gone. Incidentally no 19 is a vacant plot with only a gargae at present (and long standing outline planning permission for a dwelling) which is part of the overall property with 17 Cumin. The wall behind the lime trees is not any sort of practical boundary. The only reason that the roots arte exposed is that the new owners cleared the bank of earth that had covered them for as long as I can remeber.
Your email says: 'If the owner is concerned about proximity to the house, branches of the tree nearest the house could be cut back onone side without detracting from pair’s very considerable amenity value.' We can confirm that on the same day as the Silver Birch was destroyed a significant number of branches were cut back from the Lime Tree nearest the house.

IvorycoasterPostJuly 14, 2020, 12:14
Newbie
Posts: 3
Registered:
March 24, 2020, 10:51
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

I think the previous owners, long time friends of mine, would be horrified at this proposal ( and the proposed regimentation of the garden). I think it should be strongly resisted.

Grangeresident67PostJuly 15, 2020, 16:20
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered:
July 15, 2020, 11:11
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

We live nearby and think it would be extremely sad if these magnificent, mature and healthy trees were cut down. They are a significant part of the streetscape and contribute to the character of the Grange that we all love. If the owners of the house feel they are a safety issue, then they could be pruned. If the roots are exposed, it will be because the new owners have excavated between the two trees which both grow out of a raised bank.

If everyone cut down the tress in their front gardens, it would seriously affect the amenity value of the area. There is a public interest in the streetscape and the Council should recognise that.

We feel a tree preservation order should be put on both trees.

yemrutsPostJuly 16, 2020, 13:33
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered:
July 16, 2020, 12:14
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

Surely "safety" should be the paramount consideration?

Attractive as these trees are, they have grown to a huge size such that they pose a significant potential danger to nearby properties - especially no 17 and the house opposite. If either of these trees were to fall (eg in high wind) there could be risk to life.

At the very minimum, these trees should be substantially pruned and reduced in height. This could be done whilst preserving much of the aesthetic attraction.
But if the owner of the trees wishes to remove these trees completely, he should be allowed to do so.

wrenhaPostJuly 16, 2020, 17:10
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered:
September 25, 2013, 09:16
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

Totally agree, but a healthy tree of this size is not any greater risk than any other healthy tree in any street. It would be easy to check, but I don’t think they would reach to the houses on the other side of the road in any event.
Of more importance, as public input is not an option in this planning process,can we get our views across to the decision makers, beyond the email already sent? Could the Association put in a request for a TPO ?

The Advocates DevilPostJuly 17, 2020, 18:43
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered:
July 17, 2020, 09:23
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

Many years ago a tree of this height was blown down during high winds at my parents house.

Quite remarkably - and very luckily - it managed to come down more or less exactly between my parents‘ house and that of their neighbour. No-one was hurt, but nevertheless the two trunks that came down (of five because the tree was split similarly to one of these), still ripped off the guttering, demolished my parents‘ car port and garage, and flattened the fence and smaller trees & plants between the two properties.

The tree surgeons clearing up afterwards reckoned they’d removed more than ten tons of tree, and were amazed we’d been so lucky not to have that come down on the house - it would have destroyed it.

Having seen the damage of that near-miss, and considering just how much of a disaster it would have been had the tree come down on either of the houses themselves, there is no way that I would want to live with the risk of something like that potentially happening to my family.

Regardless of how attractive these two trees may be, or how rare and unusual they might be locally, the simple fact is they both are too large and too close to the house for the safety of the family that live there. More than that, they are so large that they also threaten the street and parts of neighbouring properties as well.

I am beyond the fall radius of the two trees, but all these families are friends as well as neighbours of mine. All of them would prefer the trees to come down - though they might not express that wish within earshot of the GA.

To take them down is clearly for everyone’s safety, and I struggle to wonder why anyone would argue that the attractiveness of the trees outweighs the safety of those that live so close? It clearly doesn’t.

Given all of the above, and as a close neighbour and friend, I am fully supportive of both trees being removed.

PlanningPostJuly 18, 2020, 09:28
Administrator
Posts: 150
Registered:
April 4, 2018, 13:36
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

This application does not include any claim that the trees are unhealthy or in any way at risk of falling and there is no report from a specialist to that effect. The Grange Association's tree specialist has described them as "healthy and vigorous" and notes that they are over 100 years old, the only ones of this age or size on Cumin Place.

I have lived in the Grange for over 20 years and have experienced many winter storms and gales but I have never known a healthy well-rooted tree to fall and cause significant damage to people or property here. In this Conservation Area, the owner of the trees is the temporary guardian, who will move on in a number of years. The trees are the permanent residents.

Marian CraigPostJuly 21, 2020, 14:11
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered:
January 28, 2019, 15:03
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

We live in Cumin Place, and would be dismayed to see these hundred year old lime trees felled. They are a significant feature of the street and greatly enhance its appearance. For environmental and aesthetic reasons, it is important to preserve them - we note that no indication has been given that the trees are unhealthy or at risk of falling. We agree that a tree preservation order should be placed on them.

ArbeePostJuly 23, 2020, 12:51
Beginner
Posts: 34
Registered:
September 24, 2013, 10:10
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

Could I just ask a "daft laddie" question ?

Am I right that we shouldn't assume that by putting a post up here, the GA will forward it to the Council planners, or that's the whole process ?

I guess the GA might say "we have had xx concerns aired on our members forum", or "here are some of the comments registered by our members on our forum", but the best way for someone to alert the Council Planning Dept is actually to write a letter or email in ?

Is that right ? Sorry ...

PlanningPostJuly 23, 2020, 13:01
Administrator
Posts: 150
Registered:
April 4, 2018, 13:36
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

Arbee:

Yes, you are correct. It is very helpful for members and other residents to air their opinions on this forum so that we can gauge the general strength of feeling about any application. But we cannot forward anyone else's comments to the Council. The Grange Association can only make one submission on any planning (or listed building (LBC)) application, so we assess the input from members before agreeing the draft of our submission with our Planning sub-group. Each of our submissions is posted on the planning pages, against the relevant application. For planning applications, everyone with a strong view should submit their own comments onto the Council's planning portal, so that the number of comments or objections can be assessed there.

Please note though that that is the case for planning applications (and LBC) only. Notifications for tree work in a conservation area ["TCO"], such as the one that is the subject of this thread, do not admit comments from anyone. It is only in exceptional circumstances that we make a special representation to the Council about a notification such as this. The Council has no obligation to take any notice of any representations on these.

In these exceptional cases, it is helpful to point Council officers, and Councillors, as well as our colleagues on Community Councils, to these web forum threads to allow them to read for themselves the strength of feeling from residents. So do please keep the comments coming! We have, in this exceptional case, emailed the Council about this TCO application, as has the Grange Prestonfield Community Council. Both emails are on the tree work notifications page of our web site.

grange65PostJuly 25, 2020, 11:48
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered:
July 25, 2020, 07:16
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

In relation to some of the previous posts, I would like to make a few points:

- Looking through the planning application and the GA's own assessment, I can see no evidence that the safety of these trees is of concern. I think it would be inappropriate to make decisions based on worst case personal anecdote and, if felt necessary, an independent view should be sought (assume this is the role of the Council).

- Being a close neighbour and having spoken to most others, in contradiction to the sentiment expressed that 'all of them would prefer the trees to come down', this is not true; most are opposed to the felling.

These trees are part of the fabric of the street and neighbourhood and should remain so.
I support a TPO being placed on these trees.

ArbeePostJuly 25, 2020, 11:57
Beginner
Posts: 34
Registered:
September 24, 2013, 10:10
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

I’m following this with interest, though I don’t live in that street.

Grange65 ... maybe a poll of the street residents might be very revealing .., I guess from entries on here, you’d already know several votes ..,

bixanPostJuly 26, 2020, 12:20
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered:
July 26, 2020, 11:03
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

Having seen the debate about these trees to date it seemed appropriate to give an adjacent view.

As the owner of a house that is directly in the radius of any descent it is most uncomfortable to witness the movement of these trees in a high wind and indeed hear the noise that they generate.

The fact is that these trees have evolved to a scale that is not in keeping with their position and they dominate the immediate properties. You could easily speculate there is a high probability that they could cause a catastrophe someday. This probability of the ‘one in a hundred year wind’ seems to be ever increasing with climate change or at least with experience of recent storms. Unfortunately there can be a different perspective if you are in the ‘fall out zone’.

No one wants to see trees removed just for the sake of it and the problem is not the trees in isolation; regrettably it is their scale and where they are in relation to the house. Surely a property owner has some fundamental right (even duty?) to do something about it if the trees threaten and intimidate a property.

It is a very sad fact that they have outgrown their position and as for aesthetics it is an interesting debate as to when was the optimum look? Taken to extremes, it is almost certain there were no trees when Cumin Place was built and for most of their lives these trees have not dominated as they currently do. Given this constant change through the years the application of a different (even reinstatement) of a better-adapted landscape can be just as appropriate.

Things change and move on. Properties need upgraded sympathetically and it is a great point that we are the guardians for future generations. This is such a case and it is a most positive step to see a house and garden being rejuvenated. Overall Cumin Place will benefit.

Peter RPostJuly 26, 2020, 18:46
Newbie
Posts: 2
Registered:
July 13, 2020, 06:47
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

Although living at some distance away within the Grange Conservation Area but in a property surrounded by mature trees I wholeheartedly agree with a previous comment:
"Looking through the planning application and the GA's own assessment, I can see no evidence that the safety of these trees is of concern. I think it would be inappropriate to make decisions based on worst case personal anecdote and, if felt necessary, an independent view should be sought (assume this is the role of the Council)." I feel that a decision to remove mature healthy trees would set a dangerous precedent for the character of the Conservation Area.

ConcernedPostJuly 27, 2020, 12:46
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered:
July 27, 2020, 11:40
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

I would strongly request that a TPO be assigned to these two Lime Trees. Both trees have been given a clean bill of health and so do not present any more of a danger than other mature trees in the area. This “Notable” Lime (Woodland Trust categorisation of 100 - 175 year old Lime Tree*) should be given due consideration within an identified Conservation area, such as we are dealing with here.

These healthy trees represent a significant value of importance in the creation of habitats for fungi and insects quality, improvement of air pollution and should they be felled would clearly have a detrimental effect on the urban landscape.

https://ati.woodlandtrust.org.uk/how-to-record/species-guides/lime/

ArbeePostJuly 27, 2020, 13:16
Beginner
Posts: 34
Registered:
September 24, 2013, 10:10
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees
Quote from wrenha on July 13, 2020, 14:42

We live across the back wall of 17 Cumin Place (in Lauder Road). These are not the only trees they propose to fell or have felled in order to totally sanitise and redesign their whole garden taking no account of what was is there already. It is most distressing. Four apple trees have now gone and this week a substantial Silver Birch which used to overhang our garden and was a delightful part of our environment has been felled (we knoew nothing about it, but now find they did submit the work to the Council who saw no reason to issue a TPO.)
The Lime trees are even more vital now that the other large tree and smaller ones have gone. Incidentally no 19 is a vacant plot with only a gargae at present (and long standing outline planning permission for a dwelling) which is part of the overall property with 17 Cumin. The wall behind the lime trees is not any sort of practical boundary. The only reason that the roots are exposed is that the new owners cleared the bank of earth that had covered them for as long as I can remember.
Your email says: 'If the owner is concerned about proximity to the house, branches of the tree nearest the house could be cut back on one side without detracting from pair’s very considerable amenity value.' We can confirm that on the same day as the Silver Birch was destroyed a significant number of branches were cut back from the Lime Tree nearest the house.

This bit concerns me, as it's already been done. I'd hate it be "oh we have to cut them down now, as the roots have been destabilised ..." !?

GwestPostJuly 30, 2020, 14:43
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered:
July 15, 2020, 11:10
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

We also live in Cumin Place and would prefer the trees to remain standing in the Grange conservation area. We would add that Frontier Forestry Ltd, a reputable tree surgery company, came to crown lift the trees on 7 July 2020. So they have been reduced recently.

wrenhaPostAugust 3, 2020, 11:31
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered:
September 25, 2013, 09:16
Very Hot topic17 Cumin Place EH9 2JX - Proposal to fell two large lime trees

The exposed roots are NOT structural ones, but the result of the earth being previously banked up around the trunks. Their exposure in no way effects the trees' stability.

Pages: 1 2
Mingle Forum by Cartpauj | Version: 1.1.0beta | Page loaded in: 1.099 seconds.